Comments on: Zune FUD II

By: Johnny Walker (aka ThunderPeel2001)

Johnny Walker (aka ThunderPeel2001) — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 23:51:15 +0000

Thank God for ExtremeTech’s review and this excellent blog. They are the only two voices of sanity I have found and for a while I was beginning to worry: To me the Zune seems like an pretty decent competitor to the iPod, but for some reason I was called names for pointing out some of the excellent features it has. (Jon, do you know that the Zune also lets you reverse sync onto FIVE different PCs – so you can share your music with your girlfriend, friends, whoever. Another nice touch!)

Watch in horror as I ask some people, who I assumed would be normal rational thinking people, what they thought of the Zune:

http://forums.idlethumbs.net/showthread.php?t=4737

If Apple has Steve’s RDF, then Microsoft must have something working in the opposite direction. Even when they do good, people see it as flawed!

By: dimitris

dimitris — Thu, 30 Nov 2006 19:58:59 +0000

I’m with Dave above. Here’s the key thing to remember:

This whole space (personal music players) is about entertainment. Knowing that part of what I paid for my entertainment device goes to Doug Morris who calls me a pirate gets in the way of my entertainment. So, no Zune for me and everyone I have and will influence.

It’s called ill will.

By: Kent

Kent — Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:03:09 +0000

The Mac Zealots really bother me. I’m an avid Mac User and evangelize the Mac User experience to anyone who will listen. I own 2 iPods and love them both. The Zune is not my cup of tea but I can see the neat features. The Wifi sharing is cool but unfortunately the 3 day limit on files that are not even DRM’d is a letdown (It makes sense for DRM’d files it can be argued). The interface is not too bad although I don’t find it as intuitive as the iPod. The screen quality is quite nice. It’s pretty chunky but doesn’t feel so bad in your hand. I hate the brown one but not techy friends of mine who are more fashionable than I am absolutely love the brown and say that brown is the latest, greatest fashion conscious choice in color.
I can’t comment on the Zune store because I’ve not purchased any music from it. It would be a deal breaker for me and people so far have not had glowing reviews of it.

The Zealots would have you believe that only Apple can make any form of consumer electronics. The Zealots make the rest of us Mac lovers look like idiots — STOP IT… BTW it’s about time that we had Wireless syncing with the iPod

By: 3ak

3ak — Wed, 29 Nov 2006 01:34:21 +0000

RE: Zune dropping Play4Sure support.
1st and foremost MS is not dropping support for Play4Sure, you can see this with more services like Vcast (which uses p4s) coming online. Microsoft wanted to make sure that they controlled the e2e experience so that they could get a more consistent experience, this makes perfect sense. I read an interview with J. Allard a while back (before Zune was released) and he said that in the future other HW manufacturer might be able to make products that play into the zune ecosystem. Think about it, this way they can have a quality control system instead of 100 different players with 90% of them being shit. They can also make sure that companies abide by a given standard. For instance we have a billion of these iPod accessories. That works b/c they all have a standard interface that accessory designers can count on. Now compare the various p4s devices, there is no standard. On the software side it also allows them to not depend on failing business (yahoo music and napster are both not profitable – money is always made on the HW, you can thank apples monopoly for that – and rhapsody has their own DRM solution which they could get working with their devices any day now). A service closure (or shitty 2nd party experience) will now not hurt the Zune brand. But who know, Zune is easily upgradeable and new features will come online as they get developed.

RE: Giving money to RIAA
Yeah, Microsoft REALLY wants to give its hard earned profits, err, losses (They are not profitable yet) to another company. Sense the sarcasm? I’m pretty sure the universal saw that they had MS bent over their knees and they also saw a way to get back at apple in their next negotiations. MS needed access to that music to compete. Apple now has a real dedicated competitor, and Universal now has leverage over apple to get the same deal as they got with MS. Don’t think you have heard the last of these types of deals. Apple and Microsoft are tech companies, they don’t want to have to deal with the RIAA but they have to in order to get out the services that they make.

RE: Zune vs. iPod.
Both great products, I have an iPod and my girlfriend has a Zune. It seems to be pretty much a wash to me (each has their strong suits, my iPod nano for example is really small, but the Zune’s screen is so sexy) so you should shop based on what you want.

RE: Apple bias in reviews and such
It is only natural for people to hate the leader and cheer for the underdogs, so people tend to side with Apple. One thing that is interesting is that Apple has for years given its computers out to journalists, reporters, actors, producers, directors, musicians and now bloggers. This obviously has some effect but really the problem is the Applite are people who are very devoted to that corperation. I never have really understood it myself, I always thought that people who were against MS should be against all forms of big abusive busniess: they should use Linux (and not by things from way worse companies like DeBeers and Exxon/Mobil)! My general rule is if you are an Apple fan I assume you are a pompus ass, if you are a linux fan you are a contrarian and if you are a MS fan then you are a fortune 500 company or a gamer.

By: gclassy

gclassy — Wed, 29 Nov 2006 00:39:41 +0000

The real problem with including PlaysForSure support in the Zune would be that the Zune would be competeing with Microsoft’s PARTNERS. To the company, going into direct competition, is worse than competing with itself. J Allard was honest when he said, the Zune is for a different customer than the PlaysForSure devices, that customer is the one who wants a simple, single, and most importantly tightly integrated store, player, and device.

What would Samsung, iRiver, Creative, and MobiBlu think if Microsoft came out with an MP3 player that had “special” features that competes right in their turf, the PlaysForSure ecosystem? Microsoft wanted to create a store, player, device combo that would compete with the iTunes model and it did just that and props to DVD Jon for debunking some of the FUD. The Zune is a great device and I know a number of people who love it.

By: BJ Nemeth

BJ Nemeth — Tue, 28 Nov 2006 23:33:33 +0000

There is a key difference between the switch from PowerPC to Intel chips and the switch from PlaysForSure to Zune. The Intel Macs are (mostly) compatible with all the same software and accessories as the earlier PowerPC models. Apple went through the same thing when they switched TO PowerPC processors back in 1994, and in both instances, none of their customers were left out in the cold.

However, any Microsoft customers who purchased music in the ironically-named PlaysForSure format will NOT be able to use them with the Zune.

Changing business plans are a fact of life. Screwing over your customers isn’t.

By: Gabriel

Gabriel — Tue, 28 Nov 2006 23:22:34 +0000

J Blake says:
Say what you will about Apple, but at least they are consistent with their business model.

Consistent? bah!
What about those Intel is evil! PowerPC is good? Is this consistent? The thing is, Apple zealots always forgets the cons of the company. It’s the Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field working, I know.

Not that there was a problem with the change of processors, but hey, let’s put the hypocrisy aside, shall we?

I own an Ipod, I am really pleased with the product, and won’t change. But hey, This isn’t a religion folks! All companies change their ways over time. Thats evolution.

just my 0.02

By: Brian

Brian — Tue, 28 Nov 2006 22:17:19 +0000

My problem with the Zune is that Microsoft seemed to do everything wrong. They had a perfectly good medium in place for selling music, playsforsure. But, in true Microsoft fashion, they abandon their “partners” Rhapsody, Napster, etc. and create their own competing standard. OS/2 Anyone?

Then, when they finally get Windows Media Player right, they don’t use it! They replace it with another piece of software. WMP 11 would have been an EXCELLENT program. Make up your mind Microsoft, do you want us to use it or not?!

Further, every Zune customer is automatically deemed a criminal by Microsoft and Universal Music in the form of an automatic $1 fine on a crime that you were not accused of, charged with, or given the chance to defend yourself from. Of course, Microsoft wrote the book on treating their customers like criminals.

The Wifi feature? Honestly, how many of you are actually going to use it? Sure, it would be cool if you were in a band and wanted to hand out your demo, but even that is useless with the DRM throttle on it. The other trick is that you have to find other people with a Zune.

Radio? It’s like I don’t already have my entire music collection on the damn thing already. What else is radio for, traffic and weather reports? I can listen to those in my car or at home.

But wait, there’s more! If you want to buy a song, you can’t just “buy” a song. No, you have to jump through hoops and buy points which correspond to dollars in really weird ratios, so get out your calculators, kids!

They could have done a LOT better. First, they should have stuck with PlaysForSure, then it would appeal to the anti-iPod crowd with music they already bought through alternative services. Secondly, their philosophy of rolling over for the record companies is not going to fly with consumers. Thirdly, the points system has got to go. The whole *reason* for buying music online is that you can buy individual tracks easily. They need to learn the lesson that putting up point of sale barriers does not equal success. People want to pay for the music and get the music, end of transaction. Finally, WMP 11 should have been the main platform, but of course MS isn’t exactly the most eager about interopability between their OWN DAMN PRODUCTS.

I guess the main lesson here is to not buy DRMed music in the first place. Buy CDs and rip to mp3. You will be able to play those mp3 files no matter what device you buy, and you won’t be tied down to a music store. Sure, physical media may cost a little bit more, but the freedom from DRM is completely worth it. Down with DRM!

By: J Blake

J Blake — Tue, 28 Nov 2006 22:01:29 +0000

Say what you will about Apple, but at least they are consistent with their business model.

What is baffling to me about Zune is the hypocrisy Microsoft has demonstrated with their choice of a closed music format for Zune. Not only because there are countless instances of Microsoft executives bashing Apple for their closed FairPlay format – but the fact they have more or less ditched all their ‘Plays For Sure’ partners and customers with the introduction of Zune.

Wouldn’t the most loyal Microsoft users be a little miffed to discover their loyalty to the company, assuming they drank the ‘Plays For Sure’ kool-aid, was met with a new closed format? What about all the licensees of the Protected Windows Media format? It doesn’t play on the Zune, either.

It would seem to me the first step of the Zune launch was to burn their most loyal fans… the ones who should be convincing the rest of us to buy Zunes right now…

By: LinkFollower

LinkFollower — Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:58:59 +0000

I have not used a Zune, so I cannot speak to that, but I have witnessed Apple vs. Microsoft fights before. Many mac users probably have pent up anger at Microsoft so that when the shoe is on the other foot, i.e. MS being the small dog, they show no more compassion than they were shown. I think this could be a good thing for Zune users. Look how mac users all flock together and are zealots for the products as a result of persecution. Now the Zune users can have a slice of that kind of fun.